I agree with all of these ensitefull comments but I think that it is important to not forget that we are fighting to be ourselves. We are asking to be accepted as we are. So while we should probably add a equality portion we should not forget our heritage and our pride. Aka- drag queens have potent significance in our societies!
ridgejoe321

Jan 15 2009, 12:34 PM EST
Rather than flashy pride marches, dances and parties- leaders of this site should contact every major pride organizing group to get together on an EQUALITY march - we need to change our language and the view of ourselves that we present to the world.

empath2008
Jan 15 2009, 1:52 PM EST
This is an EXCELLENT idea. I think that, in the past, we were a more "secret" community- so many people had (supposedly) never met a GLBT person. So, "pride" was related to "coming out" (being honest and open about our identities so that people would know that we exist) and also to reversing some of the "shame" people in our community felt about being a GLBT person. But, I do think that many of us are now much more comfortable with ourselves and that the country is well aware of our existence at this point... so, a shift in the focus from Pride to Equality seems like a great idea and the time seems right for this transition in how we approach our annual (and other) events. What would be some practical ideas for putting this into action? What might be some potential obstacles or pitfalls?

ld1266
Jan 15 2009, 2:07 PM EST

"This is an EXCELLENT idea. I think that, in the past, we were a more "secret" community- so many people had (supposedly) never met a GLBT person. So, "pride" was related to "coming out" (being honest and open about our identities so that people would know that we exist) and also to reversing some of the "shame" people in our community felt about being a GLBT person. But, I do think that many of us are now much more comfortable with ourselves and that the country is well aware of our existence at this point... so, a shift in the focus from Pride to Equality seems like a great idea and the time seems right for this transition in how we approach our annual (and other) events. What would be some practical ideas for putting this into action? What might be some potential obstacles or pitfalls?"

I could not agree more with you guys, I think we do need to celebrate people who have come out and our community but i think also at this time and place gay pride should be more equality motivated and still have that same excitement, if we want to be taken seriously then we need to "tone it down" just a little and use pride as a tool to organize,move forward and be seriously heard.while still having a great time doing it ;-) the obvious obstacles are 1. pride has usually been more party oriented so we need to keep in mind that not ALL GLBT people are fighting for the same thing some dont want to marry so.... it isnt as important to them as say hate crimes legislation gays are partiers lol so we do need to keep that in mind for those that wouldnt attend if they thought it was all about serious stuff

Garrett_in_SF
Jan 15 2009, 5:05 PM EST
Fantastic idea ... how can we get the pride committees to listen to us?

suziemuzic
Jan 15 2009, 5:27 PM EST
Most Pride Committees choose their theme months ahead. I know ours in Columbus was chosen last Sept. It is FREEDOM.

jagwyre73
Jan 15 2009, 5:37 PM EST
This is great! I was just talking about this to my partner a few weeks ago. I agree with the aspect of being taken seriously. Many straights attend pride events like it was mardi gras! We need purpose and celebration.

TeachingTolerance
Jan 15 2009, 6:16 PM EST
What an incredible idea! I couldn't agree more. What do we need to do to make this happen? To begin, I will contact the editor of our local GLTBQ paper -- what happens next to make this a reality?

AZDDW
Jan 17 2009, 3:29 PM EST
FANTASTIC idea! I have been advocating for this for years. Stop the "mindless party" aspect of pride celebrations and fight for equality instead. I, and a large group in Phoenix, have stopped going to "prides" completely the last few years. They are an embarrassing display that do not represent the very mainstream aspects of our lives that we are fighting to have recognized. It is preposterous to see people act like completely irresponsible idiots for an entire weekend, who then turn around the next day and wonder why they aren't getting any respect! Grow up, tone it down, and do something that can benefit all of us, and our lives, in general. I think Pride marches have their place in history--they are an important part of the evolution of a movement--but it is time for them to evolve once again. We must be willing to move forward--please!

Goombah
Jan 17 2009, 3:59 PM EST

"Rather than flashy pride marches, dances and parties- leaders of this site should contact every major pride organizing group to get together on an EQUALITY march - we need to change our language and the view of ourselves that we present to the world."

You are right on.....I can't imagine that it wouldn't be a priority ........
It's long overdue that all the faces of the Gay, Lesbian, Transgender community are represented.

KrazyFox
Jan 17 2009, 5:29 PM EST
How about "EQUALITY + PRIDE" or "WITH EQUALITY COMES PRIDE" or even "EQUALITY, FREEDOM, & PRIDE". There are many ways to arrange the words so they cover all the aspects of being an AMERICAN and being treated the same as any other American.

JTnlvnow
Jan 20 2009, 1:46 AM EST

"Rather than flashy pride marches, dances and parties- leaders of this site should contact every major pride organizing group to get together on an EQUALITY march - we need to change our language and the view of ourselves that we present to the world."

I really like this idea.

Judegeekgirl
Jan 21 2009, 7:04 PM EST
I'm straight so I have never been to a Pride parade. Now, I'm amazingly tolerant (hey, I love Castro St.) but if gay pride parades look like football tailgating parties, you will not get straight people involved. It needs to be more serious if you want to be taken seriously. The fun can be later. I really think you need to encourage as many straight people as possible to join you. Families and friends. If there is a March on Washington, why not have marches in other cities too? Not everyone can get to Washington.

Someone had posted that in a protest march people should carry signs saying their occupation. Straight people could carry signs that say "My son is a gay straight A student" or "my best friend is gay". I think that is a great idea. Be the people that you really are.

TruthandLove
Jan 21 2009, 7:22 PM EST
I like that
We need to call our selves PRO EQUALITY.....

AZDDW
Jan 21 2009, 10:40 PM EST
Thanks for that post Judegeegirl. I really like the idea of signs with your occupation on it. One thing I always hated about the insanity factor of pride parades is that otherwise intelligent people "flip out" during pride. They are people (doctors, lawyers, managers, owners, caregivers, business leaders) who are mainstream 364 other days of the year and then act like fools during pride. These antics are then filmed and played on endless loops by hatemongers like Bill O'Reilly (among others) in order to prove that gays are "out of the mainstream".

What a great way to counter that by marching with straight people and with signs that show our occupations, and how average and everyday we really are. Now that is pride!

Judegeekgirl
Jan 22 2009, 9:02 AM EST
My husband and I are close friends with four gay couples and I know, casually, through church and work, many more.I really hate to break this to you guys. You are pretty much just like us. I know scientists, HR managers, nurses, doctors, school teachers, lawyers, accountants, clergy, professors, MBA's, engineers, college students, retired folks. They are fun, loving, kind, intelligent but they have pretty much the same life as me and my husband. I will admit - they do throw better potlucks. Other than that.....

jaysays
Jan 22 2009, 10:21 AM EST

"My husband and I are close friends with four gay couples and I know, casually, through church and work, many more.I really hate to break this to you guys. You are pretty much just like us. I know scientists, HR managers, nurses, doctors, school teachers, lawyers, accountants, clergy, professors, MBA's, engineers, college students, retired folks. They are fun, loving, kind, intelligent but they have pretty much the same life as me and my husband. I will admit - they do throw better potlucks. Other than that....."

I've spent most my life trying to "fit in" and when I finally accepted the fact that I don't but it was ok... you go an burst my bubble! ; ). *obviously I'm kidding*

I like the idea of Pride being "Equality". I've only attended a couple of pride events in my life. One parade and one gathering at a park. The parade was a bit more crazy than the event in the park... the park event had a dog show and all sorts of "family friendly" events. It was really kind of boring. No hatemongers repeatedly showed the dog show over and over.

ridgejoe321
Jan 22 2009, 1:00 PM EST
I really like this idea of carrying signs with our occupations - this makes it much more real - let's keep evolving this idea, and maybe by spring we will have a 50-STATE STRATEGY for EQUALITY!!

don_mohidin
Jan 22 2009, 5:27 PM EST

"Rather than flashy pride marches, dances and parties- leaders of this site should contact every major pride organizing group to get together on an EQUALITY march - we need to change our language and the view of ourselves that we present to the world."

Here is a suggestion for a placard for your next march. How about quoting our new President's speech: 'We will not apologize for our way of life, nor will we waver in its defense...'

frelling_cute
Jan 22 2009, 6:07 PM EST
This is refreshing to see because there aren't a lot of Straight people out there that don't care about sexual orrientation and realize that Gay people are just the same except for Sexual preference.
Yes, we are just the same as everyone else. We stay home and socialize with friends on the weekend and yes, are known to have better parties than everyone else so everyone comes over to our place so we can dance in the living room.

frelling_cute
Jan 22 2009, 6:09 PM EST

"I'm straight so I have never been to a Pride parade. Now, I'm amazingly tolerant (hey, I love Castro St.) but if gay pride parades look like football tailgating parties, you will not get straight people involved. It needs to be more serious if you want to be taken seriously. The fun can be later. I really think you need to encourage as many straight people as possible to join you. Families and friends. If there is a March on Washington, why not have marches in other cities too? Not everyone can get to Washington.

Someone had posted that in a protest march people should carry signs saying their occupation. Straight people could carry signs that say "My son is a gay straight A student" or "my best friend is gay". I think that is a great idea. Be the people that you really are. "

It's funny because in recent years, most straights come to pride than ever before to see what it is all about.

decidela
Jan 22 2009, 7:00 PM EST
I think straight people are really looking for a way to support us, and their help has not been harnassed. We have to make it easy for them to step up. The big fight is about Marriage. IAfter Prop. 8 passed, i really got this feedback. Here's my idea: Members of the GLBT community each ask 10 straight people to go to a huge rally with the name, photo, or relationship if someone they love who is lesbian/gay/trans/bi. This is the time for straight people to lead the charge. But we have to ask them, and we have to interact with the media in an intelligent way. Sympathetic straight people know that we come to their weddings, and cheer them on, even as we are legally banished. Some straight people look to our relationships for inspiration. We could have a magnificent march of straight people asked individually by their gay friends/family to march. That way more gay people would come out of the closet as a huge additional benefit. We need straight people, and we need to come out. This would facilitate both goals, and it would be great fun too. Also, I would like to see a companion project of videos of straight people thanking gay couples for some inspiration they provided that is used to promote the MarchEquality.

decidela
Jan 22 2009, 7:07 PM EST
you are so right!

janewishon
Jan 22 2009, 8:15 PM EST
I KNOW that there are many straight people who are looking for ways to support Gay Rights -- I'm one of them. I don't think I have any close friends or relatives who are gay -- but that doesn't mean that I'm not offended by the inequality in our society.

PLEASE! Tell those of us who are straight and supportive what we can do to help.

kennj75
Jan 22 2009, 8:25 PM EST

"Rather than flashy pride marches, dances and parties- leaders of this site should contact every major pride organizing group to get together on an EQUALITY march - we need to change our language and the view of ourselves that we present to the world."

Pride needs more than a name change--it needs a MASSIVE injection of that spirit that compelled a bunch of drag queens to go out in the streets & start throwing pennies; that fire of intensity on the faces of people as they held out the signs saying "Silence=Death!". I caught a glimmer of that spark in the weeks following Prop 8's passage.
I think I know of a way we can REALLY reignite that fire we used to have as a community: Instead of staggering pride celebrations out over 6 months, why doesn't every state/city organize an old fashioned protest march to the steps of their capital/city halls on one day: June 27. Why that one day- for the inevitable few who aren't up to speed on queer history that will be the 40th anniversary of the Stonewall Riots-our "Lexington & Concord" so to speak.
Think about it-this will damper some of the spring-break like party atmosphere(I say dampen not extinguish-All work & no play) that has turned most major Pride festivals into a 3-day Circuit Party. And ending @ a government building instead of in whatever park we can keep the energy of that march focused and determined. Imagine the top story on CNN and picture the shock on every citizens face when they see such a massive effort. Instead of a whisper turning into a shout, why don't we just start off with a **MIGHTY ROAR** that the rest of the world can't just shrug off as "Oh those silly queers are at it again!" And by no means do I mean for ANYONE to hide by that comment- Lets all of us- Drag Queens to Trannies, Lipstick Lezzies to Dykes on Bikes- collectively show this world what we not only want or deserve, but are now going to DEMAND!

Rynko
Jan 23 2009, 2:52 AM EST
Yes.

I have no interest whatsoever in Pride debauchery events. They're the main reason why I've never involved myself in LGBT activism before (or any other kind of activism for that matter). But if there will be a dignified, respectable march where we hold signs with our occupations or other such things that show the *other* faces of LGBT people, I would attend.

Also, I agree with using the line from Obama's inauguration speech. It's fitting.

rev0lushion
Jan 23 2009, 10:17 AM EST
I hate to rain on everyone's parade here (pun intended) but let us not forget about another extremely important inspiration behind pride; and that's DIVERSITY. While I do think the idea of equality is important, that doesn't mean we have to look, behave and organize in the same way that straight people do. Pride for many people is about waving our "freak" flags without shame. I've read a lot of urges to gain support or acceptance from the straight "community" on this thread and it's sort of disturbing to me. Assimilation is a slippery slope. Let's not forget to honor the real gem of the LGBTQ aura, how different we all are.

ld1266
Jan 23 2009, 1:33 PM EST

"I hate to rain on everyone's parade here (pun intended) but let us not forget about another extremely important inspiration behind pride; and that's DIVERSITY. While I do think the idea of equality is important, that doesn't mean we have to look, behave and organize in the same way that straight people do. Pride for many people is about waving our "freak" flags without shame. I've read a lot of urges to gain support or acceptance from the straight "community" on this thread and it's sort of disturbing to me. Assimilation is a slippery slope. Let's not forget to honor the real gem of the LGBTQ aura, how different we all are. "

there is nothing wrong with showing our diversity but lets make it something that everyone can look at with respect the straights do support us but lets face it the majority when it comes to gay pride think its odd and just a bunch of "queers" those pride events are shown on televisions all across this country and if you want to be taken seriously then you better do somethinig that all americans can relate to. I'm not saying dont be proud I'm saying incorporate sincerity into it so that joe the plumber LOL who doesnt know a gay from ptch fork can say hey look what they are doing for our society afterall we do lead normal lives and have issues that our close to our hearts lets just incorporate some of them into pride and not have it all about the party

Rynko
Jan 23 2009, 2:22 PM EST

"I hate to rain on everyone's parade here (pun intended) but let us not forget about another extremely important inspiration behind pride; and that's DIVERSITY. While I do think the idea of equality is important, that doesn't mean we have to look, behave and organize in the same way that straight people do. Pride for many people is about waving our "freak" flags without shame. I've read a lot of urges to gain support or acceptance from the straight "community" on this thread and it's sort of disturbing to me. Assimilation is a slippery slope. Let's not forget to honor the real gem of the LGBTQ aura, how different we all are. "

I am not a freak. I am a normal person who just happens to also be in the T category. And I don't want to associate with people who have the freakness aspect as the main thing that defines their lives.

I think I have a lot to offer about myself to the world other than the fact that I'm somewhere in the LGBT spectrum. I'm "out" in the sense that if it ever came up in conversation, I would talk about it - but it never comes up in casual conversation (and straight people don't generally talk about being straight or non-trans, either). But I don't make a huge deal out of it and don't want to. There are lots and lots of other interesting things to talk about.

Add all that to your defined range of "diversity", please. Some of us don't look at appearances/behavior/organization/whatever in terms of gay vs. straight, and we just want to be treated like any other people.


AZDDW
Jan 23 2009, 4:08 PM EST

" 'We will not apologize for our way of life, nor will we waver in its defense...'"

Now that is a fantastic idea! Using a direct quote from Obama's speech would really force accountability on this issue. We really should make this the future rallying cry. I love this idea.

AZDDW
Jan 23 2009, 4:17 PM EST
Then go wave your "freak flag" at your own event! Stop hijacking pride with your freakshow. Try having some respect for the rest of us who are also fighting for your right to be whatever you want. I'm sorry to rain on your parade--but a mainstream message is what is necessary to appeal to mainstream Americans. No one has to "assimilate" unless they want to (and many want to). The real gem of the LGBTQ movement is equality.

jaysays
Jan 23 2009, 5:26 PM EST

"Then go wave your "freak flag" at your own event! Stop hijacking pride with your freakshow. Try having some respect for the rest of us who are also fighting for your right to be whatever you want. I'm sorry to rain on your parade--but a mainstream message is what is necessary to appeal to mainstream Americans. No one has to "assimilate" unless they want to (and many want to). The real gem of the LGBTQ movement is equality. "

I'm usually not a "freak" but sometimes I throw on my big sunglasses and kick back with a mojito - not exactly a masculine moment and if I could find my mumu in the bottom of my underwear drawer I would likely wear that while basking in the sun reading something lighthearted, like David Sedaris, and enjoy life for a while.

That being said, I have been known to wear suits and almost always wear conservative clothing. I will gladly put on my best suit, throw my arms around the closest "freak" and wave their flag proudly because to many, just the fact that I'm a homosexual indicts me as a freak. Regardless of if someone is a "freak" in someone's opinion, they are a human and with that distinction comes the right to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. If we are to be activists, we must do so without asking people to "be" something they aren't, no matter how "freakshow" we think they are. I am so sad to hear LGBT people referring to others as freaks... haven't we had enough of that?

Now, have any of you ever been to Mardi Gras or Fiesta - generally considered primarily heterosexual events - they have "debauchery" too.

If "we will not apologize for our way of life" how can we expect others to do so?

rev0lushion
Jan 23 2009, 5:57 PM EST
I think it's great that you have such a secure definition of who you are but you must understand that many people don't just want to "blend in".

Stonewall, which was the foundation for all pride events (though as time goes on they evolve into entirely different beasts altogether), was not an outcry for LGBTQ folks to become recognized as the same as the mainstream culture, it was an outcry to simply be recognized, as is. Many of the participants were transgendered people, drag queens, militant faggots and dykes, butch lesbians and flaming men; others were suit and dress wearing assimilation seeking individuals. All of this is just fine but the point is diversity is extremely important, otherwise we set up a degree of "normalcy" that there will always be people who don't live up to, and those people will always struggle against oppressive power dynamics.

The term freak is vague and not useful to describe anything personal. I meant to use it in that way. If anyone here took offense I would challenge you to reexamine your relationship to other's who don't necessarily ascribe to the idea of assimilation and/or normalcy.

I think it's sad that AZDDW took my message to be an attack on his/hur ideals. It wasn't meant to be that, instead it was meant to be a plea for inclusion and consideration. Every group that is assimilated leaves another group in the dust, as AZDDW's tone suggests.

AZDDW
Jan 23 2009, 9:06 PM EST

"

Now, have any of you ever been to Mardi Gras or Fiesta - generally considered primarily heterosexual events - they have "debauchery" too.

If "we will not apologize for our way of life" how can we expect others to do so?"

Jay, that was exactly my point! I'm not against the debachery at parties--if you like that then go to events like that. Why does a pride celebration have to include that? Mardi Gras and circuit parties are about debauchery and partying--and good for them. Pride is not helped by turning every pride event into that.

I am not asking anyone to change who they are. I am asking them to consider what their behavior at an event means to a larger cause of equality--and more importantly how that behavior is interpreted by others and used by them to defeat what is in fact the majority of gay poeple.

AZDDW
Jan 23 2009, 9:38 PM EST

"

I think it's sad that AZDDW took my message to be an attack on his/hur ideals. It wasn't meant to be that, instead it was meant to be a plea for inclusion and consideration. Every group that is assimilated leaves another group in the dust, as AZDDW's tone suggests. "

Revo, I apologize if I sounded "attacked"--that was not my intention. And I think we might have misunderstood each other. I am aware that many people don't "blend in" and don't want to. I am fighting for everyone--and I want all to feel inclusion and consideration. I am not advocating leaving anyone in the dust. I am asking those in the "subculture gay" groups to remember that "mainstream gays" also have the right to be heard.

By the way, changing the way Pride celebrations work does not have to mean you are ascribing to the idea of assimilation and/or normalcy. It is not an either or proposition. If you think about it the behavior of many "mainstream" gays on pride day (acting out in sub culture group ways) does not automatically mean they are renouncing who they were the day before--that they are unassimilating. People are much more complex and fluid than that.

My point was that there are some people who move back and forth freely, and without any problems. Some don't want to ever assimilate, some do--and I detect some of the "tone" around here to be very negative against people who are comfortable being assimilated. I think that is just as judgmental.
The point is not about the people involved in pride changing who they are fundamentally, but rather the shift in the overall "message and impact" of pride, and how that is represented to the public. I understand the importance of Stonewall--but all social movements progress and evolve. Isn't it alright to consider the next steps in the evolution of our movement?
I'm simply asking people to question if the current way prides are run is effective to the future of our equality, and if it is possilbe to move forward in a way that is taken more seriously and respected by more people. Just trying to find the best use of our future efforts--didn't mean to offend!

Rynko
Jan 23 2009, 11:56 PM EST

"Now, have any of you ever been to Mardi Gras or Fiesta - generally considered primarily heterosexual events - they have "debauchery" too.
"

Think of it this way. I am not into debauchery parties of any type, regardless of their hosts or purpose. I haven't been to Mardi Gras either and have no particular interest in it.

Thank you, AZDDW, for saying what I was trying to say in a more level-headed way.


DavidinPasadena
Jan 24 2009, 2:16 PM EST
YES!!! Thank you for your post. Yes, I've heard the arguments, but it always seems to me that buttless chaps, etc. - all the "in your face" attitude and attire - do nothing to help our cause. In fact, that attitude strikes me as very adolescent. Let's show our regular, everyday selves - accountants, nurses, librarians, auto mechanics, teachers, retail associates, restaurant workers, college professors, home health care providers, students, mothers, fathers, grandparents, brothers and sisters. Don't stoke the Fundies fire - extinguish it through lack of fuel and oxygen!! Maybe our new motto should be: Bore the opposition!! (not jk)

jaysays
Jan 24 2009, 2:55 PM EST

"Jay, that was exactly my point! I'm not against the debachery at parties--if you like that then go to events like that. Why does a pride celebration have to include that? Mardi Gras and circuit parties are about debauchery and partying--and good for them. Pride is not helped by turning every pride event into that.

I am not asking anyone to change who they are. I am asking them to consider what their behavior at an event means to a larger cause of equality--and more importantly how that behavior is interpreted by others and used by them to defeat what is in fact the majority of gay poeple. "

Well, forgive me, but I'm quickly approaching "tired ole queen" status, so perhaps I misunderstand PRIDE because to my knowledge it is and has always been about celebration of... well... whatever. It has always been an anything goes sort of event... So rather than trying to change what PRIDE is (or has become), why not create an "Equality" event separate from PRIDE?

Rynko
Jan 24 2009, 3:48 PM EST

"So rather than trying to change what PRIDE is (or has become), why not create an "Equality" event separate from PRIDE? "

Ah, I see where the disagreement is coming from now.

Yes, separate events from Pride rather than changing Pride. So people like me who don't participate in Pride can have something to participate in that will make a difference.



AZDDW
Jan 24 2009, 11:55 PM EST

" So rather than trying to change what PRIDE is (or has become), why not create an "Equality" event separate from PRIDE? "

Jay, I have no problem with a separate event. But, the original post on this thread was calling for a change, and I agree with that idea (so did the majority of people who read it). Just because PRIDE has always been something doesn't mean it isn't time for it to change.
I guess we can consider separate events, but you can also consider changes to existing ones. I agree with DavidinPasadena's post above yours that the existing PRIDES tend to be very adolescent in attitude, and more imporantly don't help our cause. We can still respect the past, the events and attitudes of the past, while moving forward and growing. The new movement should respect the contributions of the Stonewall era and the way PRIDES have been thus far. But the old guard should also respect that it is a new century and things change. Being gay in the 21st century doesn't have to mean what it meant 40 years ago (thankfully). Columnist Andrew Sullivan wrote the best artice I've ever read about this. We all need to respect each other's point of view, but realize that the future will be different--and hopefully equal for all.
I guess a separate event is fine, but I think a lot of people in this country are calling for a change to the existing PRIDES. Attitudes are changing and people are asking if the "anything goes" behavior is really helping us move forward. But, if some are absolutely determined to hold on to that behavior I guess they can. I'm just wondering why that is so important to them--when it has such a downside to how others perceive us in general.

Ultimately I guess the most important thing is how everyone acts in their daily lives the other 364 days of the year that aren't PRIDE. I was hoping some of that could be a larger part of PRIDES--but it doesn't have to be. I'm just hoping for the day when all of us can have the equal rights we deserve with or without marches or PRIDES.

janewishon
Jan 25 2009, 12:31 AM EST

"I agree with DavidinPasadena's post above yours that the existing PRIDES tend to be very adolescent in attitude, and more imporantly don't help our cause. We can still respect the past, the events and attitudes of the past, while moving forward and growing. The new movement should respect the contributions of the Stonewall era and the way PRIDES have been thus far. "

Please forgive me if i step on feelings --
It seems to me that, at this point in the civil rights struggle for the LGBT community, you're in need of the straight community seeing all the ways that you're like us -- so that we see that it's absurd that you don't have the same rights we do.

Not that anyone should ever have to pretend to be something they aren't -- yes, celebrate your uniqueness -- but maybe a little less Carnivale and a little more dignity might be called for when you're trying to get serious attention on the very serious issue of equality? The stereotypes and caricatures that make the news during PRIDE events give more conservative voters the excuses they’re looking for to feel ok about making you second-class citizens.

I’m not saying I know how you feel or what you should do. I’m just suggesting what might work for getting the straight community to take your rights seriously.


pngwnz
Jan 25 2009, 2:44 AM EST

" We can still respect the past, the events and attitudes of the past, while moving forward and growing. The new movement should respect the contributions of the Stonewall era and the way PRIDES have been thus far. But the old guard should also respect that it is a new century and things change. Being gay in the 21st century doesn't have to mean what it meant 40 years ago (thankfully). "

Enjoy what you choose to enjoy - and please be who you are. Please though remember that if it wasn't for the "old guard" and their actions and attitudes (and plenty of energy and time) - being gay in the 21st century would still mean what it meant 40 years ago.

Celebrate the Pride event or another event in your area the way that you and your event organizers decide to - and enjoy. Just please have a little more respect for the "old guard" or whatever other positive term you wish to apply to the generations of lgbt before you. It was done so we all would have more freedom and more equality possible in the 21st century and longer.....

fumi.camb
Jan 25 2009, 3:13 AM EST

"you're in need of the straight community seeing all the ways that you're like us -- so that we see that it's absurd that you don't have the same rights we do.

maybe a little less Carnivale and a little more dignity might be called for when you're trying to get serious attention on the very serious issue of equality? The stereotypes and caricatures that make the news during PRIDE events give more conservative voters the excuses they’re looking for to feel ok about making you second-class citizens.

I’m just suggesting what might work for getting the straight community to take your rights seriously.
"

i'm one of those "freaks"; i look like a freak and protest like a freak compared to straight cultural norm. it was stereotypical caricatured angry drunk drag queens who stood up for all lgbtq at the stonewall, resisting against oppression by throwing high-heels and beating up cops with pocket books as well witnessed (they were mourning judy garland, drinking at the bar). those acts gained the most respect for lgbtq in american history thus far.

yes, some of us not only look different and but also celebrate our diversity differently (unapologetic minority?). i think pride marches have done a lot because without us, lgbtq community didn't come this far. one of jti's mission is reaching out, educating the nation with visibility and awareness for true freedom of gender expression for all.

ld1266
Jan 25 2009, 8:11 AM EST

"Jay, that was exactly my point! I'm not against the debachery at parties--if you like that then go to events like that. Why does a pride celebration have to include that? Mardi Gras and circuit parties are about debauchery and partying--and good for them. Pride is not helped by turning every pride event into that.

I am not asking anyone to change who they are. I am asking them to consider what their behavior at an event means to a larger cause of equality--and more importantly how that behavior is interpreted by others and used by them to defeat what is in fact the majority of gay poeple. "

This is exactly why we dont get anywhere on JTI too many set in their ways to be open to suggestions of change or willing to give constructive ideas to make an existing event that draws millions of people (and millions of others see on televisions across America) and would be a great time to collectively move forward with our cause I am more interested in being able to REALLY put my family together with my husband in our state so maybe we could use an event that already exists (instead of making another one that busy families such as mine would have to find time to attend we have 3 kids in school and two mentally challenged gentlemen that live with us so trust me time is limited) No one is suggesting that PRIDE be cancelled here but lets move on with it still party if you want but make it worth something that fits into the gay lifestyle of today and what we're fighting for

reddragon696
Jan 25 2009, 9:11 AM EST
I like the idea but for those of us who live in states like Texas where we can be fired from our jobs for being Gay one has to think about how easy or hard it will be to get new employment should our employers decide they don't like their names being associated with Gay Pride.

AZDDW
Jan 25 2009, 4:11 PM EST

"
. just please have a little more respect for the "old guard" or whatever other positive term you wish to apply to the generations of lgbt before you. It was done so we all would have more freedom and more equality possible in the 21st century and longer....."

pngwnz, I do have respect for the old guard, that was exactly my point. Of course we owe everything to those heroic initial efforts. I'm asking how the behavior of certain groups in current PRIDES is respecting those efforts? I think some of it is actually disrespectful. How is the behavior of drunken slutty gyrating go-go boys and guys in assless chaps, high on drugs and having (or simulating) anonymous sex with multiple people in one weekend, respecting people who were courageous enough (in a much more difficult time) to fight for their rights? It cheapens the efforts of the very people you were talking about.

I am very grateful to the protestors and rabble rousers of the past--and I think we should emulate the political nature of those people ala Harvey Milk. The "freak show" aspect though (another poster's term who is proud of that label) is immature behavior that I don't think compares.

AZDDW
Jan 25 2009, 4:32 PM EST

"yes, some of us not only look different and but also celebrate our diversity differently (unapologetic minority?). i think pride marches have done a lot because without us, lgbtq community didn't come this far. one of jti's mission is reaching out, educating the nation with visibility and awareness for true freedom of gender expression for all."

fumi, PRIDE marches have done a lot--they have made epic contributions. You are absolutely right, the lgbtq community would not have ever come this far without them. I am all for educating the nation with visibility and awareness for true freedom of fender expression for all.

My concern was not so much about the aspects of gender expression but rather the "behavior" of the many different groups in PRIDE celebrations. People may want to celebrate their diversity differently, but sometimes those actions are just self-indulgent acting out. People acting like depraved idiots who then hide behind their "right" to do it, or pretend it is something more than it is.

I'm all for our incredibly diverse community to educate the nation with visibility, but I'm asking our members to think about exactly what kind of behavior you want to make visible. What really represents your true self to others, what you value, what rights and equality you expect to have, and how you expect to be perceived by others when you are demanding that equality. I am asking everyone to consider how their actions affect others and a movement that is ultimately larger than their own PRIDE day exploits.

decidela
Jan 25 2009, 7:27 PM EST
Yes, I agree with frelling cute that straight people must take up the banner and help lead the charge. I am an Indian lesbian and have been 100 percent out to everyone since 1976; it has not always been easy, but it has always been worth it, and i am amazed that we are still arguing within our own community about assilimlation. Just come out, to everyone, whereever you are on the LBGT spectrum, at every occaission, and in every circumstance. We are totally boring just like everyone else. We need straight people to win this fight. In my view, same-sex marriage is THE fight. Yes, I know, marriage is a capitalistic, patricarchical institution. I might not have chosen to get married in Canada if i had been straight, but because i am a lesbian it is a political act. I am not suggesting that members of the LBTG run out to get married, but i really would hope that they would support the legal right to choose marriage. It is one of the few rites of initiation that we have in the west, and if gay people are denied the option to get married, we will be forever relegated to UNinitiated status. Marriage is the issue that will win the fight. It's not so dull when you think it through from an activist perspective. In many ways the attorneys of the LBGT community are true heros to keep slogging through the courts, even if they wear boring suits.

ridgejoe321
Jan 27 2009, 2:25 PM EST

"Yes, I agree with frelling cute that straight people must take up the banner and help lead the charge. I am an Indian lesbian and have been 100 percent out to everyone since 1976; it has not always been easy, but it has always been worth it, and i am amazed that we are still arguing within our own community about assilimlation. Just come out, to everyone, whereever you are on the LBGT spectrum, at every occaission, and in every circumstance. We are totally boring just like everyone else. We need straight people to win this fight. In my view, same-sex marriage is THE fight. Yes, I know, marriage is a capitalistic, patricarchical institution. I might not have chosen to get married in Canada if i had been straight, but because i am a lesbian it is a political act. I am not suggesting that members of the LBTG run out to get married, but i really would hope that they would support the legal right to choose marriage. It is one of the few rites of initiation that we have in the west, and if gay people are denied the option to get married, we will be forever relegated to UNinitiated status. Marriage is the issue that will win the fight. It's not so dull when you think it through from an activist perspective. In many ways the attorneys of the LBGT community are true heros to keep slogging through the courts, even if they wear boring suits."

It really isn't about marriage at all - how many of you know that you can be fired just for being gay in about 32 states? or in the majority of states, there is no hate crime protection? We need ENDA, the end of DOMA and DADT as well as equality of union.

kpflueger
Jan 27 2009, 8:05 PM EST

"Rather than flashy pride marches, dances and parties- leaders of this site should contact every major pride organizing group to get together on an EQUALITY march - we need to change our language and the view of ourselves that we present to the world."

This is an excellent idea. If we don't truly take up this challenge and "demand" equality we will always be second class citizens at best!

Ken

Hothulagurlzzz
Jan 31 2009, 4:41 AM EST
I like this idea too. I find nothing wrong with changing the word "Pride" to "Equality" for this year. I hope this event turns out with a huge amount of people from different walks-of-lives (LGBT, straight, black, white, asian, hispanic, christians, jews, doctors, teachers, etc.). Everyone needs to come together.
Of course, this isn't Pride, so what people wear matters. I like the idea of wearing clothing that clearly matches your occupation while holding signs that represent your careers or other prominent social roles. Depending on the weather, you may wear appropriate apparel that day BUT your clothing still needs to visibly and clearly show what occupation you have.
As for the signs, they all need to start off with text saying things like:
"I am L/G/B/T, and I am your Doctor"
"I am Straight, and my L/G/B/T friend/family member/etc. is your Teacher"
"I am L/G/B/T, and I am an Actress"
"I am Straight, and my L/G/B/T friend/family member/etc. is your Chef"
"I am L/G/B/T, and I am a Mother of two"

Many people can't go to the "March on Washington" so why not have most cities and towns across the US do this event in synchronization with the people in Washington?
The event needs nationwide media attention (once again! its been a while since news reporters saw JTI, LOL!) and maybe have GLAAD and other grass-roots organizations to support the event (Courage Campaign, Marriage Equality USA, Yes! on Equality [the group who is planning to make a ballot-initiative for California's 2010 election))

This event needs to be so important that it reaches to President Obama to make him enact all those promises he made in that "Open Letter to the LGBT community" on that day (or week) alone when the Equality March happens, if he hasn't already in his "100 first days" in office.

fumi.camb
Jan 31 2009, 1:47 PM EST

"As for the signs, they all need to start off with text saying things like:
"I am L/G/B/T, and I am your Doctor"
"I am Straight, and my L/G/B/T friend/family member/etc. is your Teacher"
"I am L/G/B/T, and I am an Actress"
"I am Straight, and my L/G/B/T friend/family member/etc. is your Chef"
"I am L/G/B/T, and I am a Mother of two""

I find frequent use of the verb "needing" in JTI postings, how about needs of texts saying things like:
"I'm a commercial sex worker; my parents kicked me out because I'm gay"
"I'm unemployed; I was fired because I'm gay"
"I'm homeless and I'm transgender"
"I'm a drug addict and LGBT are 200% more susceptive to addiction"
"I'm attempted suicide multiple times because of parental harassment"
"I'm on permanent social security disability because I have AIDS"
"I can't use workplace bathrooms because of my sexual expression"
"I'm a rape survivor and I'm LGBT"
"I'm a high-school dropout and I deserve equal treatment"
"I'm a drag queen and I demand equal rights"

We are very different from heterosexual counterparts due to their class oppression. Pride has been once a year important opportunity to celebrate our diversity from straight people both nice and painful differences, not only our everyday veneer success stories in rest-of-year integration with them.

AZDDW
Jan 31 2009, 3:32 PM EST

""I'm a commercial sex worker; my parents kicked me out because I'm gay"
"I'm unemployed; I was fired because I'm gay"
"I'm homeless and I'm transgender"
"I'm a drug addict and LGBT are 200% more susceptive to addiction"
"I'm attempted suicide multiple times because of parental harassment"
"I'm on permanent social security disability because I have AIDS"
"I can't use workplace bathrooms because of my sexual expression"
"I'm a rape survivor and I'm LGBT"
"I'm a high-school dropout and I deserve equal treatment"
"I'm a drag queen and I demand equal rights"

"

Fumi, thanks for that post. Now that is something I can agree with you on! I really like the idea of the signs expressing all the different aspects (positive and negative) of our experience. In fact the contrast would be even more powerful: gay lawyer standing next to gay homeless teen kicked out of house for sexual orientation. gay doctor next to health care worker fired for being gay. gay social worker next to LGBT rape survivor.

I like this idea because it shows both how far we've come, but at the same time how much there is still left to do--and how many of us still face daily degradations that others have never experienced, don't know about, or worse have forgotten. Very good idea!


Fanfic_addict01
Yesterday, 10:40 AM EST

"What an incredible idea! I couldn't agree more. What do we need to do to make this happen? To begin, I will contact the editor of our local GLTBQ paper -- what happens next to make this a reality?"

How do you find out about these things? I live in Oklahoma, the "Bible-Belt" and I haven't been able to find anything! I have so much energy and I want to help so bad but I can't seem to find anything.