Discussion: Are you offended when people use the phrase, "That's so gay!"

Category: Discussion Forum / General Discussion

Report thread
Watch thread
Share this

Previous | 1 2 3 4 5 | Next > Last

Zlick	40. RE: Are you offended when people use the phrase, "That's so gay!" Dec 5 2008, 6:31 PM EST \| Post edited: Dec 5 2008, 6:31 PM EST Well, I think a key point is that the phrase refers to things as inappropriately effeminate. Not simply effeminate. No one says "that's so gay" about a girl wearing a flower in her hair. Of course, I agree it's a tragic error to assume that even the most flaming queen is inappropriately effeminate. But as language has evolved, I think the phrase has long since moved away from the commentary on people ... but yes, at its root, reflects the judgment that certain things should not be effeminate. But why should I care if some guy thinks the Fluffy Unicorn t-shirt is too effeminate for some other dude to wear? I might think so, too. And so I might even say, "Dude, that's like, SO GaY." And since I say it without a hint of really meaning that it's inappropriate for men to act effeminate (or whatever that flaming affectation is), I cannot assume anti-homosexual motives when anyone else says the term. I know what's it's like to use the phrase with innocence and with a sense of humor. I'm sure most people are using it in those ways, and not to be an insult to gays and lesbians, or women, or anybody. Just a long-winded way of saying ... Sheesh, Lighten UP. Post reply 1 out of 2 found this valuable. Do you find this valuable? Do you?
jfermiller	41. RE: Are you offended when people use the phrase, "That's so gay!" Dec 5 2008, 7:08 PM EST \| Post edited: Dec 5 2008, 7:08 PM EST Seriously? "inappropriately effeminate"?? I'm amazed and kinda bugged. Much of my research is in the area of gender roles, and gender assignment is a 'man' made artifact. Just because a phrase is thought to have lost it's meaning to the speaker, does not mean that it has also lost it's meaning to the general listener. Words characterize, yes they are just arbitrary symbols, and we are the ones that give them meaning. Would you just as readily accept the term "pussy" if it too had lost some of it's venom? I will not lighten up. This is an important social reality. I suggest to you the book Queer in America. I'm sure others could suggest other readings that might help you gain historical perspective. Post reply 3 out of 4 found this valuable. Do you find this valuable? Do you?
Zlick	42. RE: Are you offended when people use the phrase, "That's so gay!" Dec 5 2008, 7:22 PM EST \| Post edited: Dec 5 2008, 7:22 PM EST The listener is responsible for for its meaning. And that's why I think we should take a page from the Black Struggle Handbook and de-fang any evil intent of "that's so gay" or "queer" or "Fag." It's up to US to take the venom out of those words and phrases. If we as the listener decide they're harmless ... they ARE. Don't believe me? Listen how harmlessly blacks can use the "N" word with each other. Sure, it's a long way from it being harmless for White people to say it. But it's many steps along that path. Steps that I admire. Steps I think we should emulate. In any event, I think it's far from an Important Social Reality. Do you really think the average kid who uses that phrase is meaning it as an insult to homosexuals? How do you explain the prevalence of the term among the very same young people who are the most ardent and reliable supporters of gay rights? Post reply 1 out of 2 found this valuable. Do you find this valuable? Do you?
jfermiller	43. RE: Are you offended when people use the phrase, "That's so gay!" Dec 5 2008, 7:24 PM EST \| Post edited: Dec 5 2008, 7:24 PM EST would be against the use of the word pussy, faggot, gay, girlie etc being used on the schoolyard? Post reply 0 out of 1 found this valuable. Do you find this valuable? Do you?
Zlick	44. RE: Are you offended when people use the phrase, "That's so gay!" Dec 5 2008, 8:20 PM EST \| Post edited: Dec 5 2008, 8:20 PM EST Only in the same way I'd currently be against the "N" word being used by a white kid toward a black kid on the school yard. But to the extent young school-age black kids use the "N" word affectionately with one another (I've no idea if they do), I have no problem with school age gays calling each other "faggot" or with any school kid saying "that's so gay" about anything. BTW, since we have decided "gay" is the sanctioned term for homosexual, I could hardly object to its use on the school yard or anywhere else. If it's used as an insult, it's no less stupid than calling someone Lithuanian and meaning that as an insult. Believe me, it's upsetting that straight kids are conditioned to believe being thought of us homosexual is an insult. But that's an entirely separate issue from whether derogatory words are inappropriate, or can be successfully co-opted by those they are aimed at. Post reply 0 out of 1 found this valuable. Do you find this valuable? Do you?
SableKitty	45. RE: Are you offended when people use the phrase, "That's so gay!" Dec 5 2008, 8:32 PM EST \| Post edited: Dec 5 2008, 8:32 PM EST "I believe the more we use "that's so gay" among ourselves, and call each other "faggot" with affection ... the repeated use of those words in benign contexts tends to take the sting out of hearing them . " Hmmm... do you know the history of the term "faggot" as applied to homosexual men? It's not good at all. A long time ago, sodomy was a crime. If a man was accused of being a sodomite, he was put on trial. If convicted, he was burned at the stake. The term "faggot" actually refers to bundles of sticks that are used like logs on a fire. Thus, homosexual men were described as "faggots" because they were set on fire and burned to death. Nice huh? Do you really want to use this term with affection? Can we just retire it? Post reply 2 out of 3 found this valuable. Do you find this valuable? Do you?
Zlick	46. RE: Are you offended when people use the phrase, "That's so gay!" Dec 5 2008, 9:52 PM EST \| Post edited: Dec 5 2008, 9:52 PM EST yes, that's the history. It's horrible. I'm glad you asked, because chances are not 1 gay man in 50 knows that history. So that word DOES NOT MEAN THAT to them. Do you know the history of the "N" word? It's not nice (though admittedly not as horrific as that of "faggot"). So not only has the more horrific meaning been lost to time, blacks have proved the derogatory nature of a word can be disarmed if culturally co-opted. And I contend we can go further than that, and totally disarm the word ... making it useless as an insult. Don't worry ... haters will just find another one. In any event, "faggot" is a far cry more offensive than "that's so gay." Yet it makes me kinda happy when gay guys casually refer to each other as "faggot" - purposefully changing meanspirited insult to highspirited affectionism. But yeah, I'll admit the term is better off completey retired. And it pretty much is. Maybe I'm merely blessed to be living in Southern California, but I can't tell you how many decades it's been since I've heard "faggot" used with hatred. So are we all upset about "it's so gay" because we don't have any worse slur to react against? We should be happy that, in this day and age, "that's so gay" is about the worst thing said. And I doubt it's said as an insult to homosexuals more than 1 out of a hundred times. Post reply 1 out of 1 found this valuable. Do you find this valuable? Do you?
shadowgwm	47. RE: Are you offended when people use the phrase, "That's so gay!" Dec 7 2008, 3:56 AM EST \| Post edited: Dec 7 2008, 3:56 AM EST "I'm a subscriber and an active reader of Automobile Magazine. I will continue to subscribe to the magazine and encourage other car enthusiasts to do the same, but I think the derogatory use of gay is unacceptable. The January 2009 magazine has the following for the letter of the month: Seeing the stock values of GM and Ford plummet can only leave me speculating why both companies have waited so long to bring over their economical and, dare I say, good-looking European models. Can seemingly continuous "employee discount deals" really keep a car company from falling into the depths of bankruptcy? Are the majority of American car buyers waiting until 2010 to accept the fact that small, economical, versatile cars from Europe with good driving dynamics aren't "gay"? Now seems like the logical time to make a comeback against companies like Honda and Volkswagen in the American small-car market. I won't even both to ask about diesel, since most people are afraid to use "weird pump" at U.S. gas stations (unless by accident). Sean Black Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania ------------------- I don't know if anyone else is offended by the use of "gay" in this, but I'm tired of gay being used in a derogatory way. I wrote a letter to automobile magazine letting them know that this bothers me and that I think it is inappropriate. If you feel the same, I encourage you to send them an email at letter@automobilemag.com I do agree with some of what Sean Black had to say, but the use of gay, I think is offensive. Have a Great Day! Greg" I wanted to post the response I got from Automobile Magazine. I'm very pleased with it and think we have many allies in the business. Dear Greg and JC, Thanks for your letters. No malice intended here; we did discuss the letter and decided to print it as it was written, because we thought it was clear that the writer was ridiculing those people who use the word “gay” in a negative way; he indicated that by putting it in quotes. And if nothing else it seemed like something that would promote the sort of discussion we’re having right now. Oh, by the way, our managing editor, Amy Skogstrom, is reminding me that she wanted to delete the reference in the letter but that the two gay men on staff urged her not to do so! We’ve got three openly gay editors on staff here at Automobile Magazine, including yours truly. The world of automotive journalism has changed dramatically since I started here in 1990 as an editorial assistant and was hesitant to be out. Now there are queers all over the industry, in journalism, automotive PR, etc. There are gays in high positions at Motor Trend (our sister magazine) and also at Car and Driver, which is also located here in Ann Arbor. The head of PR for Mercedes-Benz USA is a big ol’ queen, too! We’ll likely print one of your letters with a reply in our March issue. Best wishes and thanks for your continued interest in Automobile Magazine. Joe DeMatio Executive Editor Automobile Magazine (Source Interlink Media) 120 E. Liberty Street Ann Arbor, Michigan 48104 USA Email joe.dematio@automobilemag.com Post reply 1 out of 1 found this valuable. Do you find this valuable? Do you?
jaysays	48. RE: Are you offended when people use the phrase, "That's so gay!" Dec 7 2008, 4:41 AM EST \| Post edited: Dec 7 2008, 4:41 AM EST "Only in the same way I'd currently be against the "N" word being used by a white kid toward a black kid on the school yard. But to the extent young school-age black kids use the "N" word affectionately with one another (I've no idea if they do), I have no problem with school age gays calling each other "faggot" or with any school kid saying "that's so gay" about anything. BTW, since we have decided "gay" is the sanctioned term for homosexual, I could hardly object to its use on the school yard or anywhere else. If it's used as an insult, it's no less stupid than calling someone Lithuanian and meaning that as an insult. Believe me, it's upsetting that straight kids are conditioned to believe being thought of us homosexual is an insult. But that's an entirely separate issue from whether derogatory words are inappropriate, or can be successfully co-opted by those they are aimed at." Does anyone else find it profound that society says/types "the 'N' word" but says and spells out "faggot"? Post reply 1 out of 1 found this valuable. Do you find this valuable? Do you?
Zlick	49. RE: Are you offended when people use the phrase, "That's so gay!" Dec 7 2008, 11:03 AM EST That's an awesome reply from the magazine. * * * * Heheh, I thought of typing it as "The 'F' word" to give it equal standing, but the "F" word is already taken, ya know (kinda like how i hate when businesses use "pc" for photocopy when it's already widely accepted in the wider world as 'politically correct'). So, I'm afraid we're stuck with spelling out "faggot." And I don't think blacks will have completely succeeding in de-clawing the "N" word until I can at least type it on a message board (and believe me, I know from too recent Post-8 anger experience that I cannot!) Post reply Do you find this valuable?
jaysays	50. RE: Are you offended when people use the phrase, "That's so gay!" Dec 7 2008, 1:58 PM EST \| Post edited: Dec 7 2008, 1:58 PM EST "That's an awesome reply from the magazine. * * * * Heheh, I thought of typing it as "The 'F' word" to give it equal standing, but the "F" word is already taken, ya know (kinda like how i hate when businesses use "pc" for photocopy when it's already widely accepted in the wider world as 'politically correct'). So, I'm afraid we're stuck with spelling out "faggot." And I don't think blacks will have completely succeeding in de-clawing the "N" word until I can at least type it on a message board (and believe me, I know from too recent Post-8 anger experience that I cannot!)" I didn't mean you individually Zlick, I menat society in general. "Faggot" is still fairly acceptable, unlike "nigger". Both carry horrible connotations, but if you look around message boards, you see faggot commonly used with few people saying, "Dude, you shouldn't use that word." You also still here it very often in public - I overhear it a lot and it seems to have become (or remained) socially acceptable. As an experiment, go to a public place - in conversation with someone else use the word "faggot" - probably not much of a reaction from those around, then use the word "nigger" and see what happens. Post reply 2 out of 2 found this valuable. Do you find this valuable? Do you?
MiDerecho!	51. RE: Are you offended when people use the phrase, "That's so gay!" Dec 7 2008, 2:50 PM EST \| Post edited: Dec 7 2008, 2:50 PM EST Here's the thing Zlick. I usually agree with what you have to say, but have to disagree with you on this one. I'm a gay male who happens to be Afro/Latino, who's partnered with an Irish man. I work as a social worker, I hear all sorts of bigoted crap from all types of people. Racism and sexism still live. I don't think any of it is appropriate. My personal take on using gay, the "N" word, the "F" word, whatever, is based on a history of hate. I don't use the "N" word, or the "S" word (spic), "K" word (kike), "C" (chink), WT (white trash) ... you should get the idea now. Please stop thinking of minorities as some undefined blob made up of no distinction. NO ONE I KNOW USE ANY OF THESE WORDS! Our view of each other and how we relate to the world are as distinct and individual as white Americans. There are other ways of de-clawing these words. How about not using them? Words have power, whether one wants to admit it or not. What do you think the reaction would be if someone affectionally called Obama nigger? I don't buy the hype. These terms are offensive and can hurt people. I agree that the power of some words diminish with time, but frankly the consequences of their usage overtly or not can damage, and we have to be aware of this, not dismissive. "Lightening up", is a luxury some of us can't afford. Think about it, if every time you did something that others thought was typically "white male", how would you feel if someone claimed... "that's so white male privileged of you, don't take it personally, I mean it in the most affectionate way". Wil Post reply 1 out of 1 found this valuable. Do you find this valuable? Do you?
MiDerecho!	52. RE: Are you offended when people use the phrase, "That's so gay!" Dec 7 2008, 3:16 PM EST \| Post edited: Dec 7 2008, 3:16 PM EST "I didn't mean you individually Zlick, I menat society in general. "Faggot" is still fairly acceptable, unlike "nigger". Both carry horrible connotations, but if you look around message boards, you see faggot commonly used with few people saying, "Dude, you shouldn't use that word." You also still here it very often in public - I overhear it a lot and it seems to have become (or remained) socially acceptable. As an experiment, go to a public place - in conversation with someone else use the word "faggot" - probably not much of a reaction from those around, then use the word "nigger" and see what happens. " YUP! Totally agree. You know, I am openly gay. I talk to people about my partner soon after meeting them as I don't want to put up with hearing disparaging talk about gays. I just don't want to hear it. Gays continue to be one of the last minorities that can still be openly ridiculed. I see it all the time on television and films. i.e. "Will and Grace". Personally, I hated that show. I know I've mentioned that before. But not only did I feel it was just badly produced and not funny, but it was typical how gays are still depicted: not to be taken seriously and open to ridicule. Unworthy of due respect. It's very similar to the depiction of blacks during the Amos and Andy era. Read: http://www.museum.tv/archives/etv/A/htmlA/amosnandy/amosnandy.htm I might sound over zealous and probably a bit over sensitive about racial issues, and I suppose I could be. But it does baffle me at times that images of minorities have changed so slowly over the years. Sometimes feel that we could do better as a country. Feeding the images shouldn't be acceptable. Some of us can't agree on this, so I take it upon myself to help us evolve just a little and express disapproval when I hear something that isn't to my liking. At least let that person know that they need to show some tolerance and respect around me. I know, hard-ass, but I believe it's really the only way to produce actual change. W Post reply Do you find this valuable?
MiDerecho!	53. RE: Are you offended when people use the phrase, "That's so gay!" Dec 7 2008, 3:30 PM EST \| Post edited: Dec 7 2008, 3:30 PM EST "I'm never offended and I'm a gay teen. I understand what they mean, and a lot of people do it without thinking about what it means. I don't think that justifies it if someone is offended by it, but honestly, it doesn't matter, to me at least, whether people use it or not. I can count on two hands my gay friends who use "gay" in that manner, and quite a few straight, gay-friendly friends as well. In fact, the people who get most offended by it are the PC straight kids. I always laugh when they get offended by a gay person saying "gay." How does it affect them? I think it is quite a bit like the n-word, if not on such a large scale. In the area where I live, the older black generation is greatly offended by its use, while the younger generation throws it out much more callously. They're quite a bit farther away from the oppression used by the word, and so they don't feel personally victimized by it, the way the older black generation feels victimized by the n-word and the older gay generation feels victimized by the derogatory use of the adjective "gay." While some may be offended by "gay," I think the real problem words are "homo," "fag," and "dyke." That not only implies a certain inferiority, but also certain harmful stereotypes. And they're thrown around just as easily and with real hateful intent. But I do support freedom of speech in every meaning of the phrase. No matter who it offends. I wouldn't wish to eliminate any words from a person's vocabulary that a person doesn't find offensive themselves." Hello EllieisMe Never offended? It's not that some people are offended by the use of "gay", it's the way the word is used. Nigger may be used more by younger people, it still does not diminish the meaning of the word. Young blacks may be a " ...bit farther away from the oppression", but the oppression is not that far from them. Freedom of speech can be hurtful. I may the freedom to say anything, but words can incite people to do harm to others. We need to be aware of language. It's a powerful tool. Even if you are a gay teen, and not offended by the use of "gay" the intent and use of the word, among you and your friends is still guarded. They're people you know, therefore it follows that you know how they feel about you. Let's take another example, what if let's say someone dressed up as a Klansman walked up to you and yelled "GAY!", in a harmful and malicious tone, wouldn't you at least be somewhat perturbed by that? They're practicing their freedom of speech, but is it right? There has to be some line drawn when it comes to human behavior, Otherwise society would fall into a state of chaos. Wil Post reply Do you find this valuable?
EllieisMe	54. RE: Are you offended when people use the phrase, "That's so gay!" Dec 7 2008, 4:02 PM EST \| Post edited: Dec 7 2008, 4:02 PM EST "Freedom of speech can be hurtful. I may the freedom to say anything, but words can incite people to do harm to others. We need to be aware of language. It's a powerful tool. Even if you are a gay teen, and not offended by the use of "gay" the intent and use of the word, among you and your friends is still guarded. They're people you know, therefore it follows that you know how they feel about you. Let's take another example, what if let's say someone dressed up as a Klansman walked up to you and yelled "GAY!", in a harmful and malicious tone, wouldn't you at least be somewhat perturbed by that? They're practicing their freedom of speech, but is it right? " I'm talking about when people use the phrase, "That's so gay," as stated by the name of this thread. I am never offended by that. Besides, if a Klansman walked up to me and yelled "gay," no I wouldn't be offended because it's a Klansman. Hopefully I wouldn't take a crazy religious white supremacist to heart, very least for his homophobic views. If it comes to the point where the term "gay," itself is offensive, then that is an entirely different problem. The thing is kids are now farther away from the oppression. It's hard to argue that they aren't. This is the most accepting generation to date, and I'm saying this in the south. Neither I nor anyone else I know was raised to fear expressing our character. It is no longer socially acceptable to murder or injure any minorities. Kids aren't raised with the danger of being violently harmed for expressing their views, and it is a very unfortunate event when that happens. But sure, people still are huge bigots and act out in words against minorities, and that, of course, includes homosexuals. However, there's already huge lines drawn in society that prevent freedom of speech from causing society to fall into chaos. You can't regulate what's right and wrong. That's between each person and his or herself. Some evangelicals think it's "right" to stone homosexuals. I think it's "right" to support equal rights and safety for all. And sure, some will be offended from small things to big things. I personally reserve my offense for when someone means to be very hurtful. And that doesn't include calling something "gay." I'm not saying you and everyone else shouldn't get offended. I'm just expressing my opinion. Post reply Do you find this valuable?
MeglovesNicki	55. RE: Are you offended when people use the phrase, "That's so gay!" Dec 7 2008, 5:17 PM EST \| Post edited: Dec 7 2008, 5:17 PM EST To everyone:my hope is that if you are truly upset by the usage of the phrase "that's so gay" that you are also equally incensed by phrases "that's retarded", "that's so lame", etc. I agree that using "that's so gay" to decribe something undesirable is not okay. But I don't let it bother me. If it is the person's intention to hurt me or insult me because I am homosexual, it has never been through the phrase "that's so gay". In fact, people have said that in conversation with me and then immediately flushed bright red and apologized profusely, stating that they did not mean it to be offensive, and I have just laughed and reassured them that all is well. During the pre-election protests, however, when passerby repeatedly screamed FAGGOT into my face....well, that was a different story. Their lack of malicious intent still does not alter the fact that many people are unwittingly propogating the attitude that homosexual = bad; however I agree with the fact that I hold the power in however I interpret the words being used. Meg Post reply Do you find this valuable?
mewimi	56. RE: Are you offended when people use the phrase, "That's so gay!" Dec 7 2008, 5:46 PM EST \| Post edited: Dec 7 2008, 5:46 PM EST I've been called "lesbo" "dyke" "faggot" "carpet..............." you get the idea, all of which people thought was "okay" due to their pure ignorants. If I see someone mis-use the word "gay" I point out their error in great detail. Generally they will say they are sorry and try not to do it again, so the majority is just you know following the "hype" It's similar to the online use of the word "Jew" and "Jewish" and the real life use of the derogatory word "Nig**er" I also think the use of the word "retard" is generally offensive toward people who are actually challenged mentally. Post reply Do you find this valuable?
MiDerecho!	57. RE: Are you offended when people use the phrase, "That's so gay!" Dec 8 2008, 10:28 AM EST I'm always a little weary when I hear people talking about how their generation is the most progressive ever. I don't buy it. Not trying to be offensive here. But let me remind you that not all of your generation live in "progressive" areas. Many gays of your generation live in areas in which being gay is still considered inferior and are more likely to experience violence by others from others in their generation for being gay. Even the term gay has the same meaning as "faggot" to them. There's no difference to them. I'm not sure how old you are or where you live, therefore can't say what it's like for you. All I'm saying is that you can't conclude that because gays are possibly more accepted where you live, that it's the same everywhere else. I know it's not. I work with kids of your generation from "urban" areas. Minority kids, in many instances, cannot be as open as they would like to. I know their experience is very different from others. Walk down any urban area that is poor, minority, riddled with crime, gangs, and drugs and tell me whether or not you feel comfortable being openly gay. It takes a tremendous amount of courage for those kids, or your generation, to do that, literally risking their lives. It 's not as simple as you think. That's why I feel WORDS have the power to hurt as well as to change and expose bigotry and hate. True, It's your choice to be dismissive of such behavior, but will you take responsibility when words, or freedom of speech is used to promulgate malicious intent, or the repression of your freedoms? We are all responsible for the behavior of others in one way or the other. Going along with such language is passively accepting your own oppression and that of people like you. Post reply Do you find this valuable?
jaysays	58. RE: Are you offended when people use the phrase, "That's so gay!" Dec 8 2008, 11:04 AM EST Can we really be offended by the word "gay" as a word when we ourselves refer to the community as LGBTQ (with the "g" obviously being "gay") - how do you argue that a word is offensive when you use it to refer to yourself? However, when it comes to the phrase, "that's so gay" it's a matter of the usage of the word. It is meant to insult something, to belittle it, to make light of it and to not take it seriously - thus, it's meant to be offensive to the object it is referring too. It's a matter of intent. That being said, a friend of mine's teenage son uses that phrase a lot (as most do)... one day, he said it in front of me, turned to me and apologized for it without me saying a word about it. If it wasn't meant to be offensive, why would people apologize for using it in "mixed company"? Generally speaking, I don't get offended by the phrase though. I think it is degrading in its origins, but I just refuse to be that sensitive - there are much bigger boundaries to our civil liberties than this week's catch phrase. Post reply Do you find this valuable?
ristorilsm	59. RE: Are you offended when people use the phrase, "That's so gay!" Dec 8 2008, 11:30 AM EST " I am a teacher, and students use the phrase every two minute alway in reference to something stupid. and I see the faces of the gay kids that have to hear this all the time. is demoralizing. How would they feel if I said "that's so straight" to refer to something stupid, all the time all day long. " I would feel...nothing at all? Post reply 0 out of 1 found this valuable. Do you find this valuable? Do you?

Previous | 1 2 3 4 5 | Next > Last

JavaScript must be enabled in order for you to contribute to this site.
To start contributing, enable JavaScript by changing your browser options, then try again.

Home