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Zlick |
60. RE: Are you offended when people use the phrase, "That's so gay!"
Dec 8 2008, 11:30 AM EST
MiDerecho!, you make some very good points that I'm taking as nutritious food for thought.I tend to put more stock in intent than in words themselves, and I remain of the opinion that desensitation to certain words can be better than simply not hearing them anymore. But I agree words can have the power to hurt, and that I should reexamine my cavalier attidude towards some of these words. Certainly my heart goes out to every gay person or person of any opporession whose environment or situation exposed them to intolerance, hatred and danger in this day and age in America. I'm blessed to have rarely experience that ... and I want everyone to experience the same blessing. 1 out of 1 found this valuable. Do you? |
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ristorilsm |
61. RE: Are you offended when people use the phrase, "That's so gay!"
Dec 8 2008, 11:35 AM EST
There are so many words out there that people take offense too, it is impossible to censor them all, and it reduces English to a very bland language. On the other extreme someone who uses "gay" for everything is just limiting their own vocab. The best thing to do is to learn to be immune to the attacks of words, as only you can empower them to inflict harm upon you. You can then chose the words YOU use.
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SableKitty |
62. RE: Are you offended when people use the phrase, "That's so gay!"
Dec 8 2008, 2:30 PM EST
What would Miss Manners say?We all know what she would say. It's not ok to use any term that dehumanizes a whole group (I myself am guilty of using the insult 'tard' and I have a cousin with Down-Syndrome). I disagree with the posters who say that words only have power in the ears of the listener. A war of words is the first battle in the war of propaganda that leads to oppression like Prop. 8. If you don't stop kids -or anyone- when they say, "that's so gay!" then they aren't going to know it's demeaning. All you have to do is shoot them a dirty look, or just tell them "Hey man, that's not cool. I'm gay and I don't appreciate that." Whenever I've spoken up, I have always gotten a "sorry, my bad." Then you say "S'ok, bro. We're cool." Ignoring prejudice has never made it go away. The only way to affect change is to speak up and confront bigotry. 1 out of 1 found this valuable. Do you? |
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SableKitty |
63. RE: Are you offended when people use the phrase, "That's so gay!"
Dec 8 2008, 2:42 PM EST
"Hey Zlick, It has been my experience that young kids in the hip-hop culture will refer to each other as "nigga." This is a term of inclusion and I don't know what else, but it's not an insult. This is not limited to African-American males, either. White kids who enjoy hip-hop consider "nigga" a badge of honor. This is a completely different word than "Nigger." I have never - ever - in my whole life heard that word used with anything other than spite and I have never -ever- met an African American who uses that word positively. The exceptions are Dick Gregory for the title of his book, and the rap group NWA, who were making a political point. Also, I don’t know where the N-word comes from. I don’t know what it actually means. I just know it’s mean to say. I toured the old slave-market in Beaufort, SC once and read about the origins of slavery in America, but I still didn’t get a definition of the word. If anyone on this board knows, tell me, because I’m curious about things like that. Do you find this valuable? |
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MiDerecho! |
64. RE: Are you offended when people use the phrase, "That's so gay!"
Dec 8 2008, 3:15 PM EST
"Hey Zlick,hey SableKitty, I think most don't know the origin or the actual word "Nigger", other than that it has been used in this country since the 1800's. It has been traced back to the Latin word "niger" which means black. The word for black in Spanish, you may know, is negro, the "e" is pronounced as "eh" (sorry, couldn't think of anything else...well there you go...as in "else"!) In any case, it's not used offensively, just the word for black. But interestingly, speaking of the power of words, I've heard Latinos using "negro", as a slur. This is an interesting site to read up on the origins of "nigger" : http://www.aaregistry.com/african_american_history/2420/Nigger_the_word_a_brief_history Wil Do you find this valuable? |
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MiDerecho! |
65. RE: Are you offended when people use the phrase, "That's so gay!"
Dec 8 2008, 3:17 PM EST
"MiDerecho!, you make some very good points that I'm taking as nutritious food for thought.I'm glad you're able to see that we all have different experiences and have to be sensitive to that. Do you find this valuable? |
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MiDerecho! |
66. RE: Are you offended when people use the phrase, "That's so gay!"
Dec 8 2008, 3:23 PM EST
"There are so many words out there that people take offense too, it is impossible to censor them all, and it reduces English to a very bland language. On the other extreme someone who uses "gay" for everything is just limiting their own vocab. The best thing to do is to learn to be immune to the attacks of words, as only you can empower them to inflict harm upon you. You can then chose the words YOU use."Gee thanks, I'll make sure and keep in mind the richness of the English language, next time someone yells an epithet at me. I'll also remind someone who's using the word gay while their beating up on a gay person, that their vocabulary usage is limited and they should think about expanding it. Ah! America. Do you find this valuable? |
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ristorilsm |
67. RE: Are you offended when people use the phrase, "That's so gay!"
Dec 8 2008, 4:10 PM EST
"I'll also remind someone who's using the word gay while their beating up on a gay person, that their vocabulary usage is limited and they should think about expanding it.in your example, the evil is the beating which is poured into the vassal of the word Do you find this valuable? |
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ristorilsm |
68. RE: Are you offended when people use the phrase, "That's so gay!"
Dec 8 2008, 4:16 PM EST
"I disagree with the posters who say that words only have power in the ears of the listener. A war of words is the first battle in the war of propaganda that leads to oppression like Prop. 8.Again the words themselves do not contain the oppression. It is their context , and solely their context. You can say the most hateful thing to a homosexual without using any slurs, or you can say the nicest thing with a slur. I will say that context can be complex, as its rooted in the heart of the message and the author. 0 out of 1 found this valuable. Do you? |
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plyoung |
69. RE: Are you offended when people use the phrase, "That's so gay!"
Dec 8 2008, 4:26 PM EST
I think the trick to this issue is to respond in person. Visibility has become one of our bigger problems. We are visibly invisible. What do I mean? We becaqme so comfortable and assimilated in the last 10 years that we just assumed things would eventually go our way. But , as we have now found out, while we enjoying our new found june and ward cleaver gay lifestyles, the religious right was still marching on assembling their army of misinformation and molding church and state together.When someone says "thats so gay" look them in the eye and ask, What does that mean? First, most wont be able to answer intelligently. Second, follow up with I am gay. I have known you XX number of years, worked with you and supported you. Is their something substandard about myself that makes my life the justification of your insult? Changing attitudes one person at a time will get us further than simply complaining about the use of a term that has become generally accepted in society as meaning less than desireable. Do you find this valuable? |
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robish518 |
70. RE: Are you offended when people use the phrase, "That's so gay!"
Dec 8 2008, 5:18 PM EST
No... I use it myself pretty often.... Occasionally, if I feel I need to emphasize my point, I'll flap my limp wrists around like ferry wings.
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MiDerecho! |
71. RE: Are you offended when people use the phrase, "That's so gay!"
Dec 8 2008, 6:07 PM EST
"in your example, the evil is the beating which is poured into the vassal of the word"no..in my example in my example the beating and the words work together. Rarely is there a bashing of any sort without an epithet or two thrown in. Words are just words, but you cannot deny the influence words have over people. A tyrant can use words in their quest for power. A poet can use words to seduce. Moreover, have you never heard of verbal abuse? It is a reality to many. Perhaps you have the fortitude to ignore abusive words or intent, not everyone does. Making people aware that the words they use can hurt others is not becoming subservient to the word, it's letting someone know that their not allowed to use words to degrade anyone else. Do you find this valuable? |
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ristorilsm |
72. RE: Are you offended when people use the phrase, "That's so gay!"
Dec 8 2008, 6:11 PM EST
see , that is pretty luls, why give up such a comedy goldmine? I treat gays 100% equal I assure you. To me, anthropomorphizing various injustices, situations, or items, and then envisioning them having a session in sodomy or fillatio is just hilarious, and relieves the stresses that those things can cause. So no, I have no desire to relinquish my therapeutic use of the word "gay". Again, it honestly doesn't harm you any more than gay marriage harms het marriage. To rationalize that it does is illogical as it does not follow necessarily. If people are taking my use to describe a broken pencil as "gay" and interpreting that as a means ton continue hate against homosexuals, then there is a problem already set in place that is merely reacting to my comment. 0 out of 1 found this valuable. Do you? |
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ristorilsm |
73. RE: Are you offended when people use the phrase, "That's so gay!"
Dec 8 2008, 6:17 PM EST
"no..in my example in my example the beating and the words work together. Rarely is there a bashing of any sort without an epithet or two thrown in. Words are just words, but you cannot deny the influence words have over people. A tyrant can use words in their quest for power. A poet can use words to seduce.No the words are simply there. I assure you the person is more concerned about the beating. I don't deny they have influence over people, because of the receiver. All your examples involve people being persuaded using words, are you saying when someone says "gay" in the context of the discussion, that they are persuading that your trash? Verbal abuse, yes I was teased all the time of being fat/smelling as a kid. I am now skinny and I suppose I smell good enough as a man can get for his gf. Their words are even more meaningless to me now than they were then. I will say I feel you hit the nail on the head when you mention "fortitude", but I feel that anyone can achieve this level of fortitude. Ultimately to be free, i think it is the only way, otherwise we end up censoring. 0 out of 1 found this valuable. Do you? |
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ristorilsm |
74. RE: Are you offended when people use the phrase, "That's so gay!"
Dec 8 2008, 6:20 PM EST
Let me just end with this. People are always going to say things that another is going to take offense. Really you need to free yourself, because even if they censor the use of that word, it is still there on top of the resentment of having their freedom revoked. 0 out of 1 found this valuable. Do you? |
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EllieisMe |
75. RE: Are you offended when people use the phrase, "That's so gay!"
Dec 8 2008, 7:35 PM EST
"I'm always a little weary when I hear people talking about how their generation is the most progressive ever. I don't buy it. Not trying to be offensive here. But let me remind you that not all of your generation live in "progressive" areas. Many gays of your generation live in areas in which being gay is still considered inferior and are more likely to experience violence by others from others in their generation for being gay. Even the term gay has the same meaning as "faggot" to them. There's no difference to them.Every generation is more progressive than the one before. For every completely liberated gay in previous generations, there was one being murdered. And I'm not saying we're the most progressive generation there will be, but we're more progressive than the previous one. I don't know where you live, either, but to give you an example, the church down the road was one two Episcopal churches to convert to Anglicanism after the Episcopals elected a gay bishop. That's the only reason. Because a gay guy hundreds of miles away was elected into office. No, I don't feel comfortable being gay. But when people say, "that's so gay," it doesn't bother me. It's when they say, "you're going to hell, you goddamn dyke," that I get uncomfortable. But I would not take away their right to say that. Freedom of speech will be used to hurt people all the time. But it's the same thing that allows us to even have this conversation. But it's not the words killing the kids. It's the actions. Words can't repress a person, action can. That's why I don't get offended when people say that. I'm not just sitting by when they tell me to go to hell and say, "It's your right to say that." Because it's my right to say something right back. Those kids there probably do have it harder. That's why I'm saying, there's much worse to worry about than "that's so gay." You have to learn how to pick your battles ("you" in a general manner). And if that was my goal, I wouldn't waste resources on that phrase, or on inter-group disputes when there are much worse injustices to conquer. I am responsible for my own actions just like everyone else. 1 out of 1 found this valuable. Do you? |
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Zlick |
76. RE: Are you offended when people use the phrase, "That's so gay!"
Dec 8 2008, 7:41 PM EST
So, yeah, I might refrain from the jocular use of "homo" and "faggot," but I'm not gonna stop saying "That's so gay." I like the phrase, and I feel especially entitled, as a gay man, to use it with the confidence that those who hear me say it know i mean no offense to gays.Ya know, I have a foot condition that gives me great trouble walking sometimes, but I don't take it personally when people say, "That's so lame." Do you think they REALLY mean to insult people who can't walk??? Do you find this valuable? |
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SableKitty |
77. RE: Are you offended when people use the phrase, "That's so gay!"
Dec 8 2008, 9:06 PM EST
"So, yeah, I might refrain from the jocular use of "homo" and "faggot," but I'm not gonna stop saying "That's so gay." "But what do you mean when you say it? Do you mean "that's so stupid?" or "That's really lame in an effeminate way?" So what is your point? Are you, as a gay man, saying that being gay is stupid or effeminately lame? What do you mean? You may think that as a gay man you have the right to call yourself stupid and lame, but you don't have the right to call other gay men stupid and lame. I do have to agree with Ellieisme; we have to pick our battles and "that's so gay" isn't the worst thing I've ever heard. I get drive-by-dyked all the damn time (some jackass drives by and yells "DYKE" at me from his car). I just deal with it because there's nothing I can do. But you bet, if I'm standing next to some kid who says, "That's so gay" then I'm gonna ask him what he means. Then I'm gonna call him a tool. 1 out of 1 found this valuable. Do you? |
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SableKitty |
78. RE: Are you offended when people use the phrase, "That's so gay!"
Dec 8 2008, 9:26 PM EST
"I think most don't know the origin or the actual word "Nigger", other than that it has been used in this country since the 1800's. It has been traced back to the Latin word "niger" which means black. The word for black in Spanish, you may know, is negro, the "e" is pronounced as "eh" (sorry, couldn't think of anything else...well there you go...as in "else"!) In any case, it's not used offensively, just the word for black. But interestingly, speaking of the power of words, I've heard Latinos using "negro", as a slur.Thanks Wil, that was a great article. I think some of the folks on this board who think words don't hurt should read it. Here's my favoite quote; "nigger is an expression of anti-Black hostility. Without question, nigger is the most commonly used racist slur during hate crimes." I think the other slurs most commonly used during hate-crimes are "bitch" and "faggot." Again, thanks for the education. I'm always trying to learn something new. Nichole Do you find this valuable? |
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SableKitty |
79. RE: Are you offended when people use the phrase, "That's so gay!"
Dec 8 2008, 9:31 PM EST
" Visibility has become one of our bigger problems. We are visibly invisible. What do I mean? We becaqme so comfortable and assimilated in the last 10 years that we just assumed things would eventually go our way. "That's a profound conclusion. Good point. Do you find this valuable? |