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Discussion: ???What happened to the DOMA protest for Atlanta?!?!Reported This is a featured thread

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kennj75
???What happened to the DOMA protest for Atlanta?!?!
Jan 10 2009, 2:14 PM EST | Post edited: Jan 10 2009, 2:14 PM EST
I thought this was supposed to happen on January 10 and I can't find a damn thing about it?? What gives?! 0  out of 1 found this valuable. Do you?    
Keyword tags: National DOMA protest
robish518
robish518
1. RE: ???What happened to the DOMA protest for Atlanta?!?!
Jan 10 2009, 5:56 PM EST | Post edited: Jan 10 2009, 5:56 PM EST
"I thought this was supposed to happen on January 10 and I can't find a damn thing about it?? What gives?!"
DOMA protest in Phx today had a dismal performance.... were you able to go to an event at all? Do you find this valuable?    
jilwcw
jilwcw
2. RE: ???What happened to the DOMA protest for Atlanta?!?!
Jan 10 2009, 6:29 PM EST | Post edited: Jan 10 2009, 6:29 PM EST
I don't no what to say about the Atlanta protest, but you should get to Ebneezer Baptist Church on 1/19 MLK day. Rick Warren is speaking there. There is an organized protest. Here's a copy of a flyer

YOUR GOVERNMENT is moving each day closer to a theocracy, where a narrow and hateful brand of Christian fundamentalism will rule.


PROTEST RICK WARREN
Monday, January 19th, 9AM
Ebenezer Baptist Church
(Auburn Ave. and Jackson Street)


Rick Warren is a Biblical literalist. Just as some used the Bible to defend slavery, Rick Warren uses the Bible to promote hate and discrimination against gays and lesbians. He backed Proposition 8, a California constitutional amendment to ban same-sex marriages, and equates homosexuality with pedophilia and incest. He upholds war and capital punishment while declaring abortion as murder and promotes women’s subservience to men.
Rick Warren is the keynote speaker for the MLK Day commemoration at Ebenezer, and to deliver the invocation at Barack Obama's inauguration. This is outrageous! Seeking “common ground” with hateful theocrats is unacceptable! As the World Can’t Wait Call says, “That which you will not resist and mobilize to stop – you will learn or be forced to accept.”
www.worldcantwait.org atlanta@worldcantwait.org

1  out of 1 found this valuable. Do you?    

kennj75
3. RE: ???What happened to the DOMA protest for Atlanta?!?!
Jan 11 2009, 12:02 AM EST | Post edited: Jan 11 2009, 12:02 AM EST
Absolutely NOTHING here in atlanta! I took it upon myself to forward the letter & a sig form to my mother, sister and some friends and ask that they do what they can/feel comfortable with per situation to get as many signatures as they can as well as spent the better part of this afternoon knocking on each door of the 2 subdivisions which make up my community to muster up signatures (LEMME TELL YA-- **NOT** an easy task in northwest atl burbs/Roswell-Alpharetta-John's Creek area!!!))

Instead people would rather focus on Reverend Rick Warren (I'll throw my 2-cents worth on THAT topic when I reply to the next person's post).

This is precisely why I chipped in my proposal for us to focus our energies on 2 events this year: First a march on every state capitol on 6/28/09 in commemoration of the spirit of Stonewall; followed on october 11 by a national march in Washington D.C. to commemorate NCOD and remind America that no matter what constitutional amendments they decide to trash our states' & nations' heritage with--we will not go away!

Now- on to this Rick Warren debacle...! Do you find this valuable?    

kennj75
4. RE: ???What happened to the DOMA protest for Atlanta?!?!
Jan 11 2009, 12:33 AM EST | Post edited: Jan 11 2009, 12:33 AM EST
"I don't no what to say about the Atlanta protest, but you should get to Ebneezer Baptist Church on 1/19 MLK day. Rick Warren is speaking there. There is an organized protest. Here's a copy of a flyer

YOUR GOVERNMENT is moving each day closer to a theocracy, where a narrow and hateful brand of Christian fundamentalism will rule.


PROTEST RICK WARREN
Monday, January 19th, 9AM
Ebenezer Baptist Church
(Auburn Ave. and Jackson Street)


Rick Warren is a Biblical literalist. Just as some used the Bible to defend slavery, Rick Warren uses the Bible to promote hate and discrimination against gays and lesbians. He backed Proposition 8, a California constitutional amendment to ban same-sex marriages, and equates homosexuality with pedophilia and incest. He upholds war and capital punishment while declaring abortion as murder and promotes women’s subservience to men.
Rick Warren is the keynote speaker for the MLK Day commemoration at Ebenezer, and to deliver the invocation at Barack Obama's inauguration. This is outrageous! Seeking “common ground” with hateful theocrats is unacceptable! As the World Can’t Wait Call says, “That which you will not resist and mobilize to stop – you will learn or be forced to accept.”
www.worldcantwait.org atlanta@worldcantwait.org

"
I *KNOW* I'm setting myself up to be flamed to no end- but if Melissa Etheridge has the balls to take on the seething judgment from our comrades then so do I:
Can SOMEONE **PLEASE** explain to me what good it does our cause to subscribe to the same song and dance our detractors use on us- EVERYONE fits in a nice little stereotype: Republican = EVIL!; Gay = Liberal Democrat; Christian = nutcase bent on electing Jesus Christ as President and adopting the Bible as the US Constitution.
For some CRAZY idea I truly believed we were beyond all that shit! (pls excuse the crass-if apt- words)
Part of the reason a lot of society will love us to death but think our cause is, for lack of a better phrase- teetering on the preadolecent is because there are occasions where we go off and get reactionary in situations that bear further scrutiny or require a disclaimer.
No I will be the first to admit when I read Reverend Warrens statement about his reason for supporting Prop 8 i felt that time bomb obliterate the better part of my rational mind. I was in complete agreement with every protest plan and was ready to tar-and-feather the man. Then I picked up a Sovo today and there was an article titled "Not anti-gay to oppose gay marriage, Warren says". Again my first reaction was -- THE NERVE OF THIS BIGOT! Thank God that when I'm bored I will read just about anything b/c I read the article.
In this article he explained he in no way intended to equate LGBT relationships to incestuous/pedophilic relationships. Then it dawned on me: I just broke the rule of rules in every one of my thought processes- Form my opinions based only on what I HAVE FOUND/DISCOVERED to be true and not from someone else's account.
I never bothered to even find out how this guy managed to make it on the 'naughty' list. I just fell right in step *CHRISTIAN- OH HE'S SUCH A BIGOT!*
*Got to start a new post to finish this out-Please read on* Do you find this valuable?    

kennj75
5. *CONTINUATION*RE: ???What happened to the DOMA protest for Atlanta?!?!
Jan 11 2009, 12:56 AM EST | Post edited: Jan 11 2009, 12:56 AM EST
So I found out what this guy's deal was..
While the way his statement reads sounds like the typical evangelical tag line i've heard time and again- gays are as bad/worse then ____ (insert sex act here). But let's be real- can anyone REALLY HONESTLY say they haven't said something which-upon hearing/reading the statement or seeing a reaction, didn't suddenly realize-uh-think that may have come out wrong!
Now while i disagree with the foundations of his thought processes- (contrary to mainstream belief- marriage isn't like it was in the 50's let alone as it was in biblical times) he was merely espousing a very common belief that, whether we want to face it or not- the majority of our nation do still believe- give them the same rights but do we have to call it marriage (again- not that I agree: the courts took care of "seperate but equal" with Brown/Board of Education!). Honestly it is how most of America- INCLUDING THE BELOVED OBAMA feels (while Obama was against prop 8 for the fact that it would strip rights away that californian's enjoyed @ the time of it's adoption- he has said on COUNTLESS occasions he supports domestic partnerships but does not want to term it "Marriage")
So that's the pedophile/incest bs on Warren. As for capital punishment, believing abortion is murder- believe it or not there are gay groups that hold these beliefs too. And nothing I have read in my research of the man points to him even believing in "women's subservience to men" let alone promoting it!
In fact- he actually fully supports the current DP registry in CA which happens to be the most progressive one in the nation! WOW now there is one MAJOR bigot.
In this time where we need to be showing America our 'enlightened' sensibilities- let's not stoop to the opposition & demonize a person without possession of all the facts. Do you find this valuable?    
jilwcw
jilwcw
6. RE: *CONTINUATION*???What happened to the DOMA protest for Atlanta?!?!
Jan 11 2009, 2:39 PM EST | Post edited: Jan 11 2009, 2:39 PM EST
O.K. I'm pretty sure I'm not going to flame you. I'm not even sure if I know what that means.You might find interesting what Rick Warren's fight against AIDs has done. http://www.alternet.org/story/118125/.

As for LGBT people being reactionary by protesting Rick Warren-was it reactionary to form a group called ACT UP when the Reagan and Bush Sr. administrations refused to do anything about the AIDs epidemic? Was it reactionary of us when we came out in full force when Matthew Shepard was killed? Was it wrong of us to confront the likes of Fred Phelps when he showed up at his funeral? Giving expression to anger through non-violent protest isn't synonymous with being reactionary. Its an appropriate response to an injustice.

Warren has worked very hard at selling himself as a moderate evangelical. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7o4QqGbQmU0 Does upholding the biblical definition of marriage and supporting legislation like prop 8 sound to you as if he is a moderate evangelical? There is a real basis for LGBT people to be angry about a proponent of prop 8 being invited to give the invocation and think there is a basis for people to protest.

Legislation like prop 8 is pushed by the Christian Right- that yes-want to rule the country according to the laws of the Bible. The last eight years speak for themselves. They have deeply influenced policy making. Chris Hedges former middle east correspondent, Michael Weinstein of the military religious freedom foundation, and Esther Kaplan.

If we act like its impolite to express our anger or demand our rights legislation like prop 8 will sweep the country and hate crimes will rise. Yes I said it...hate crimes will rise and have. Anytime there is anti-gay legislation hate crimes against LGBT people rise. http://pageoneq.com/news/2008/sf1223-8.html. Read what a coordinator with the New York-based National Coalition of Anti-Violence Programs said about this.
 Do you find this valuable?    
jilwcw
jilwcw
7. RE: *CONTINUATION*???What happened to the DOMA protest for Atlanta?!?!
Jan 11 2009, 2:43 PM EST | Post edited: Jan 11 2009, 2:43 PM EST
I'm sorry I meant to write read what Chris Hedges, Michael Weinstein, and Esther Kaplan have written on the influence of the Christian Right on policy making. Do you find this valuable?    

kennj75
8. RE: *CONTINUATION*???What happened to the DOMA protest for Atlanta?!?!
Jan 11 2009, 3:20 PM EST | Post edited: Jan 11 2009, 3:20 PM EST
"O.K. I'm pretty sure I'm not going to flame you. I'm not even sure if I know what that means.You might find interesting what Rick Warren's fight against AIDs has done. http://www.alternet.org/story/118125/.

As for LGBT people being reactionary by protesting Rick Warren-was it reactionary to form a group called ACT UP when the Reagan and Bush Sr. administrations refused to do anything about the AIDs epidemic? Was it reactionary of us when we came out in full force when Matthew Shepard was killed? Was it wrong of us to confront the likes of Fred Phelps when he showed up at his funeral? Giving expression to anger through non-violent protest isn't synonymous with being reactionary. Its an appropriate response to an injustice.

Warren has worked very hard at selling himself as a moderate evangelical. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7o4QqGbQmU0 Does upholding the biblical definition of marriage and supporting legislation like prop 8 sound to you as if he is a moderate evangelical? There is a real basis for LGBT people to be angry about a proponent of prop 8 being invited to give the invocation and think there is a basis for people to protest.

Legislation like prop 8 is pushed by the Christian Right- that yes-want to rule the country according to the laws of the Bible. The last eight years speak for themselves. They have deeply influenced policy making. Chris Hedges former middle east correspondent, Michael Weinstein of the military religious freedom foundation, and Esther Kaplan.

If we act like its impolite to express our anger or demand our rights legislation like prop 8 will sweep the country and hate crimes will rise. Yes I said it...hate crimes will rise and have. Anytime there is anti-gay legislation hate crimes against LGBT people rise. http://pageoneq.com/news/2008/sf1223-8.html. Read what a coordinator with the New York-based National Coalition of Anti-Violence Programs said about this.
"
While his actions are GROSSLY irresponcible & naive- again this is a popular view held by many which we have to strive to overcome. But in what way does that mean he shouldn't give an innvocation or in anyway homophobic. (& this is from a gay man & a person living with HIV!)

Again I reiterate- while it is truly unfortunate that he supports prop 8, he does believe gay people deserve relationship rights. is that not at least a starting point?

Oh-- FYI- to be flamed woudl take more than one person-- a person who is being flamed is bombarded with a constant repeatative scornfull remark. Like your mom sayinng you should be ashamed 500 times.. over the course of a day- for something that happend a year ago.. (to exagerate LOL) Do you find this valuable?    

kennj75
9. RE: *CONTINUATION*???What happened to the DOMA protest for Atlanta?!?!
Jan 11 2009, 3:40 PM EST | Post edited: Jan 11 2009, 3:40 PM EST
"As for LGBT people being reactionary by protesting Rick Warren-was it reactionary to form a group called ACT UP when the Reagan and Bush Sr. administrations refused to do anything about the AIDs epidemic? Was it reactionary of us when we came out in full force when Matthew Shepard was killed? Was it wrong of us to confront the likes of Fred Phelps when he showed up at his funeral? Giving expression to anger through non-violent protest isn't synonymous with being reactionary. Its an appropriate response to an injustice."
Also- at no time did I EVER say that reactionary responses are inappropriate. As a SanDiego resident for the better part of 17 years I watched very closely the amendment 8 results. I was devastated to the point of tears when I heard it past- an emotion not even evoked when my current state did the same thing. And when I heard of protests sparking around the country & making it's way to Atlanta I so badly wanted to go- but as a sales supervisor @ my store my reponcibilities would not allow it. I did my own for of reactionary though: I did not speak the entire day & wore duct tape on my mouth. When people asked why I had a little 3x5 info card to hand out.

If you read in my responce post prior to reponding to you, you see my reactionary responce to ALL the crap we're getting about marraige. And on hearing of a scandel in the No on 8 campaign group- that was the straw that broke the camels back--Kind of like when matthew sheppard died & a miniture stonewall broke out again in NYC.
**CONTINUED IN NEXT REPLY POST** Do you find this valuable?    

kennj75
10. RE: *CONTINUATION*???What happened to the DOMA protest for Atlanta?!?!
Jan 11 2009, 3:52 PM EST | Post edited: Jan 11 2009, 3:52 PM EST
"As for LGBT people being reactionary by protesting Rick Warren-was it reactionary to form a group called ACT UP when the Reagan and Bush Sr. administrations refused to do anything about the AIDs epidemic? Was it reactionary of us when we came out in full force when Matthew Shepard was killed? Was it wrong of us to confront the likes of Fred Phelps when he showed up at his funeral? Giving expression to anger through non-violent protest isn't synonymous with being reactionary. Its an appropriate response to an injustice."
I decided that I am sick & tired of putting my faith in lobbyists and fundraisers thrown more to make themselves feel good if they happen to loose. I watched as gay people played into clinton's BS and saw him as some great gay patron saint- all he managed to do was enact the CHEAPEST sell out of a an executive order, sign discrimination against us into our legal code (consequently this is why I am a staunch libertarian) In 2004 HRC sure did do alot of fundraising gala affairs. What was the fruit of this self sacrificing revelry: 12 constituional amendments defining marraige between a man & women. People cry about needing money to organize? Well tell me: how many bored members sat on the panel for the original stonewall. Ifigure screw it-- How much money does it take for every gay person accross the country to march to their state capitol on the same day- and IMPORTANT one at that (6/28/09) you know once upon a time there was something called the grape vine-- and then the only resources available were school, church, public life. Nowadays we got blogs and social networks and IM 7 TXT & SMS..We don't need to spend millions on ad campaigns. Let the news stories go out about a march taking place and how it happened in every capital city!
But- to quote Ecclisiastes 3:1-8 There is a time for everything, and a season for every activity under heaven: a time to be born and a time to die, a time to plant and a time to uproot, a time to kill and a time to heal, a time to tear down and a time to build, a time to weep and a time to laugh, a time to mourn and a time to dance..a time to tear and a time to mend, a time to be silent and a time to speak, a time to love and a time to hate, a time for war and a time for peace.
There is a time when justice demands that we set aside social discourse and just do a good ole-fashioned march on WHATEVER. But there are times when the really is no point in it.
** OK ONE MORE CONTINUE POST I PROMISE!* Do you find this valuable?    
jilwcw
jilwcw
11. RE: *CONTINUATION*???What happened to the DOMA protest for Atlanta?!?!
Jan 11 2009, 5:45 PM EST | Post edited: Jan 11 2009, 5:45 PM EST
"While his actions are GROSSLY irresponcible & naive- again this is a popular view held by many which we have to strive to overcome. But in what way does that mean he shouldn't give an innvocation or in anyway homophobic. (& this is from a gay man & a person living with HIV!)"

If we are going to cut hairs here and say we can't call him homophobic....At best Rick Warren is heterosexist and sexist. He is being elevated to the stature of "America's Pastor" by being invited to give the invocation. Also I don't think Rick Warren and his church have a moderate or benign stance on homosexuality and are in fact homphobic.There is a link below on Saddleback's website statement about homosexuality. Its interesting to note that Saddleback has removed its statement on homosexuality.I posted a link to that story as well. I don't think its because they've changed their minds I think Warren doesn't want to be exposed for what he is...a homophobe and doesn't want his moderate evangelical cover blown. There is a interesting link about how Saddleback does not support divorce even in the case of domestic violence. There's a link below on this as well.

I like what you've written about not putting all your stock into lobbying and fundraising. I got sick of petitions too. I think we need a movement independent of official politics to stand up for all of humanity. I also liked how you problem solved not being able to go to the protest. You spoke volumes by wearing the tape across your mouth. I'm sorry the DOMA protest didn't happen in Atalanta.



http://thenewagenda.net/2009/01/02/rick-warren-abuse-is-no-excuse-for-women-to-seek-divorce/
http://blog.beliefnet.com/stevenwaldman/2008/12/saddleback-homosexuals-not-wel.html
http://littlegreenfootballs.com/article/32252_Saddleback_Church_Deletes_Page_on_Creationism_and_Homosexuality Do you find this valuable?    

kennj75
12. RE: *CONTINUATION*???What happened to the DOMA protest for Atlanta?!?!
Jan 11 2009, 10:48 PM EST | Post edited: Jan 11 2009, 10:48 PM EST
"O.K. I'm pretty sure I'm not going to flame you. I'm not even sure if I know what that means.You might find interesting what Rick Warren's fight against AIDs has done. http://www.alternet.org/story/118125/.

As for LGBT people being reactionary by protesting Rick Warren-was it reactionary to form a group called ACT UP when the Reagan and Bush Sr. administrations refused to do anything about the AIDs epidemic? Was it reactionary of us when we came out in full force when Matthew Shepard was killed? Was it wrong of us to confront the likes of Fred Phelps when he showed up at his funeral? Giving expression to anger through non-violent protest isn't synonymous with being reactionary. Its an appropriate response to an injustice.

Warren has worked very hard at selling himself as a moderate evangelical. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7o4QqGbQmU0 Does upholding the biblical definition of marriage and supporting legislation like prop 8 sound to you as if he is a moderate evangelical? There is a real basis for LGBT people to be angry about a proponent of prop 8 being invited to give the invocation and think there is a basis for people to protest.

Legislation like prop 8 is pushed by the Christian Right- that yes-want to rule the country according to the laws of the Bible. The last eight years speak for themselves. They have deeply influenced policy making. Chris Hedges former middle east correspondent, Michael Weinstein of the military religious freedom foundation, and Esther Kaplan.

If we act like its impolite to express our anger or demand our rights legislation like prop 8 will sweep the country and hate crimes will rise. Yes I said it...hate crimes will rise and have. Anytime there is anti-gay legislation hate crimes against LGBT people rise. http://pageoneq.com/news/2008/sf1223-8.html. Read what a coordinator with the New York-based National Coalition of Anti-Violence Programs said about this.
"
Rick Warren may believe in a 'traditional' definition for marriage ( of course now does that mean that parents pick the groom, and the wife becomes the sole property of the husband??) but he does also believe that as a gay man I should be given those same rights & responsibilities with my partner as my sister did with 2 husbands! He just wants to call it something else (didn't we already decide separate is NEVER equal). I may disagree with those stances and I may believe he is naive to think abstinance only AIDS education will prevent the spread of AIDS better than safer sex. Call me crazy but to me that does not equal a bigot or a homophobe. What it does equal is an opportunity to show him where his logic is flawed by working with him, not by name calling.

Coming from an Evangelical-Free church in California, I can attest to some TRUELY AWFUL closed minded idiots. A California E.V.Free Pastor would make your southern baptist minister look like a heathen by comparison. One of the reasons I had such a hard time coming out to myself was because as a high schooler in the E.V.Free- I was supposedly "Healed of the accursed AFFLICTION of homosexuality (had it's own demon & EVERYTHING). So for this guy to not just be a California Evangellical Pastor, but to be a national success and still publicly affirm that gays should have the same rights under DP is actually very brave. Now instead of demonizing him, lets show him the rest of the truth-seperate can not be equal. I just can't bring myself to scream bigot to someone who CLEARLY is not one. Do you find this valuable?    

kennj75
13. RE: *CONTINUATION*???What happened to the DOMA protest for Atlanta?!?!
Jan 11 2009, 11:14 PM EST | Post edited: Jan 11 2009, 11:14 PM EST
""While his actions are GROSSLY irresponcible & naive- again this is a popular view held by many which we have to strive to overcome. But in what way does that mean he shouldn't give an innvocation or in anyway homophobic. (& this is from a gay man & a person living with HIV!)"

If we are going to cut hairs here and say we can't call him homophobic....At best Rick Warren is heterosexist and sexist. He is being elevated to the stature of "America's Pastor" by being invited to give the invocation. Also I don't think Rick Warren and his church have a moderate or benign stance on homosexuality and are in fact homphobic.There is a link below on Saddleback's website statement about homosexuality. Its interesting to note that Saddleback has removed its statement on homosexuality.I posted a link to that story as well. I don't think its because they've changed their minds I think Warren doesn't want to be exposed for what he is...a homophobe and doesn't want his moderate evangelical cover blown. There is a interesting link about how Saddleback does not support divorce even in the case of domestic violence. There's a link below on this as well.

I like what you've written about not putting all your stock into lobbying and fundraising. I got sick of petitions too. I think we need a movement independent of official politics to stand up for all of humanity. I also liked how you problem solved not being able to go to the protest. You spoke volumes by wearing the tape across your mouth. I'm sorry the DOMA protest didn't happen in Atalanta.



http://thenewagenda.net/2009/01/02/rick-warren-abuse-is-no-excuse-for-women-to-seek-divorce/
http://blog.beliefnet.com/stevenwaldman/2008/12/saddleback-homosexuals-not-wel.html
http://littlegreenfootballs.com/article/32252_Saddleback_Church_Deletes_Page_on_Creationism_and_Homosexuality"
I want to preface this reply by just saying that I have truely enjoyed this back and forth we've been having. There are so few people I associate/socialize/work with who truly offer me an intellectual challenge for the true purpose of mutual education growth and insight. I HOPE NOTHING i HAVE SAID HAS PERSONALLY OFFENDED YOU- as I am sure you've picked up I'm a firm believer in the Salt n peppa lyric, "opinions are like assholes: Everybody's got one.
With that- I need to go to bed- look for my responce to those links tomorrow! Do you find this valuable?    
jilwcw
jilwcw
14. RE: *CONTINUATION*???What happened to the DOMA protest for Atlanta?!?!
Jan 12 2009, 2:04 PM EST | Post edited: Jan 12 2009, 2:04 PM EST
Hey,
I just want to say that nothing you've said has offended me. I too have truly enjoyed the back and forth. It is a different/rare experience from some of the discussions/debates I've had as an activist and organizer. Sometimes other activists and organizers don't know how to have respectful debate. And then you have the people you talk to on the street who after talking to them for a minute or two you discover they have fallen victim to the anti-intellectualism that has griped this country the last decade. They don't want to know and they don't want to talk about anything. That's not to say its like that all the time-because there are people who really do want to know and want to talk. And they really appreciate it. I think this has been very respectful debate and again I've enjoyed it. Even if we don't quite agree on whether people should protest Warren I think there are some things we do agree on. I.E. petitioning and lobbying don't quite cut it and that there is does need to be visible and mass protest/demonstrations across the country. Do you find this valuable?